In conversation with Robert Luis, Founder of Tru Thoughts Records

We caught up with Robert Luis to take stock of the past 25 years at the helm of Tru Thoughts Records — and to talk about what’s ahead.

Tru Thoughts Records has something of a cult status in the music community. Formed in 1999 in Brighton by Robert Luis and Paul Jonas, the label was initially run from the cupboard under Rob’s stairs, serving as a home to some of the exciting music being produced by the regular guests at club nights Robert was promoting and playing at as a resident DJ at the time (these nights featured artists such as phonic:hoop, Etch, Sonic Switch, Shake Yer Wig, and Vibez Express). Twenty-five years later, and now with a sister office in LA, Tru Thoughts have released over 120 albums and are still 100% independent, with Rob being the man picking the tunes and Paul manning a team that now handles all aspects of releasing the music internationally, as well as publishing to movies, TV and ads. The label’s policy remains true to the ethos on which it was built: to sign music of all styles and genres produced by artists they believe in; this spans everything from downtempo instrumentals to heavy club tracks, through reggae, dub and hip hop, to the wonderful voices of folk, jazz and soul-influenced singers and songwriters. Good music is good music.

How did you get involved in the music industry?

I was always into music from a young age, particularly hip-hop. My mum bribed me, pretty much, to do my A-Levels, with two Sound Lab turntables. I saved up and bought a mixer, an amp and speakers. I came down to Brighton to study at university and started DJing and running a club night that started to do well in the early 90s. I was booking people like James Levelle and Patrick Forge, Kevin Beetle, that type of scene. Then drum and bass came in so I was booking people like Fabio & LTJ [Bukem] to play alternative sets, electric sets, and non-drum and bass sets. Towards the end of the 90s, I was generally getting older and the success of Damian Harris' Brighton label Skint Records had an impact on me - and a lot of other people. And so I started Tru Thoughts and learnt on the go - that’s the brief story of it.

And today?

When the label first started I was on my own. I organised club nights with Paul, who is now a 50/50 partner in the label. Today, my main role is that of A&R. It's about signing artists and finding a balance between what we have to do as a label commercially and what they have to do creatively. That's my main role, but I keep an eye on quite a few things as a whole.

What’s Tru Thought’s Label’s vision?

My vision of the label was always based on the club nights I used to organise. They were small (150 people), happening every Wednesday, with huge queues outside, and everyone said "Take this to a bigger venue". What I realised at the time was that I wanted to be creative with the music I was playing and I knew that being in a smaller environment would allow me to do that.

What I can do on a big festival stage is very different to what I can do in a small club, because if you play an underground record that nobody knows about that's amazing, half the audience might like it, but half the audience is 300 people, and a lot of people will walk off. That's why, partly with the label, I wanted it to be a creative space.

I'd made music, got ripped off and quickly learnt how the music industry worked and who the dodgy people were. When I launched Tru Thoughts, I tried to make everyone understand the business side of it, but I also made it very clear that I had to make a living out of it and that was the way I structured things, that was the reason I was doing these chords.

I remember Bonobo asking me why I was asking for such a long-term contract, I've never had a successful label. But I said I planned to do this in 25 years, which we managed to do.

So there was a balance between creativity and not compromising your music and making a living at the same time, and that's what happened in the end. Allowing them to follow their vision is a big part of what I think we do at the label, we give artists the space to do what they want.

Tru Thoughts takes pride in not specialising in just one music genre. Can you tell us more about that?

It comes naturally from my own taste in music. I've always been into a wide range of music and I've never been ashamed of what I liked. Artists in the charts are sometimes seen as having 'sold out', but even when I was a child, I used to say to myself: "Isn't it great that a record you like is seen by more people?”

The eclectic nature was a learning curve for me too, because when I was young I loved hip-hop, I knew about samples, but I was pretty evangelical about hip-hop as a teenager, and then a friend of mine discovered Gilles Peterson & Norman Jay and said, "Listen to them, they're playing the original samples from A Tribe Called Quest Records”, which was jazz stuff. I love those original hip-hop records, but I also loved the jazz records when I discovered that music. Then I started to make the connection between everything — jungle, hip-hop, house, reggae, soul, dancehall — and that's what I've always done and that's what I did as a DJ, so the label really reflects that.

When I sign music, I ask myself if I can play it in a DJ set, if I can play it on the radio. Does it correspond to the best music that exists in this genre? That's always my mission with anything we sign: will I be able to play that alongside the best music that I’ve discovered that week? Will it rock the club as well as any other record?

Tru Thoughts will take over Cafe 1001 on Saturday 27th April. Tell us about that, and about the other artists signed by Tru Thoughts who are playing elsewhere at the festival this year too.

For the takeover, we’ve got Rhi, who’s a singer, songwriter, producer, and musician whose music is down-tempo, “stonery”, electronic music. Bruk Rogers is an alias for Zero T who’s a well-known drum and bass produce. His album’s just come out and he’s exploring within broken beat, the jazzier side to the more noisier dancehall influence side of drum and bass. We’ve got Rhys Baker and Lucy Michael from the label DJing as well, and myself. Then Tara Lily is playing as well! We’re really looking forward to it. I’m looking forward to just being around and checking out what’s going on too.

Can you tell us more about Tara Lily for people who aren’t familiar?

From time to time, we discover an absolutely extraordinary artist. She said to me: "I don't really know where I fit in and how people see me as an artist", because she's a singer, producer, and writer, very eclectic in the styles of music she plays.

She certainly has an influence on jazz, but she has her own space. I remember saying to her: "I know Bonobo is huge now, but when we originally signed him, we were trying to figure out where and to whom we should send it. We had to explain a bit what he was doing. He plays instruments, he produces, he's a DJ but he's also on stage, so we knew at the time that he was doing something different, and I'd say the same of Tara. When she performs, she's so confident, she's got a really unique stage-presence. She's influenced by a lot of different things, but she's not like anyone else. If you haven't seen her live yet, I recommend it!

You’re playing a huge role in helping underground artists shape their careers. How do you choose the artists you’re working with?

I think nowadays, I have to reference social media. There’s a lot of presence on numbers, but what I like and what we have space for on the label is that I can just go to Paul and say we just signed this for the music. It’s not about the numbers, they might not gig loads, but the music they’re doing is great.

Rhi is probably an example of someone we just signed, when we first heard her music, she was about to self-release it and the person mastering it was someone I knew. He just sent it to me and I said I really love it, I said to her you’ve got no social media presence and she said no, I’m not really into all of that. So we signed it, not based on any big visions or plans of “what are you going to do as an artist”, we just signed it for the music. So there’s that balance there.

We are also definitely signing artists who are really hungry, who are gigging, who are able to manage these parts of the industry that you need to in order to take things up a level. Artists like Quantic & Alice Russell, Bonobo. They’re very motivated, very hungry, and work very hard. We can give them advice on things but we’re also ultimately like a good back up for what they’re doing. Whereas someone like Rhi, it's more about just getting the music out. We try to balance both of those worlds with what we do as a label, and I think in this day and age it’s important to. I like that we are signing artists without a pressure on that side of things. I do have a concern about social media and how it’s easy to get lost in that world and lose sight of making music. You need that world and it’s brilliant for marketing, but you’ve got to balance it.

Is there an artist or project that you’ve worked with that has left a special mark on you, and why?

The obvious answer for me is Quantic, because he's made so many albums for us on the label, in so many genres. The fact that he's given us so much music and stayed with us for so long is really unique. And I really appreciate the fact that he did. Even when he was with us and did other albums, he had the opportunity to try other labels, but he always stayed with us.

In a funny way, I learn from everyone we work with. As I own half the label, there's never any pressure on my work or what I do, the only pressure I have is my own, to be an A&R. If you sign ten artists, you know that not all of them are going to work, it's impossible. Especially if you're an eclectic label.

Even if it doesn't work out and we continue, I always ask, if we don't continue with an artist, “do you have any comments for us, what you think we did right and what didn't work?” In the beginning, I was quite sensitive (pre-therapy!), I took it all to heart. Now I understand. Sometimes, because it's a business, you can be very busy and miss things, which can be upsetting for an artist. But the positive things we get from artists, their journey, and for me, working with creative people, the vision and the way their mind works, I find so fascinating. They talk about something and then make it happen. Other times, you think you're going to get something from an artist and you're not at all, but it's still an amazing journey.

If you could offer one piece of advice to an emerging artist starting out, what would it be?

Being patient is probably the key that we always tell everyone. I think you can often get lost listening to someone or thinking that someone has had overnight success or that this artist is doing better than you. If you really want to become an artist, think about what you're going to do over 3 to 5 years. Be prepared to work hard. When we discuss signing an artist, we always say, "Don't forget that the work starts once you've signed with us." Just because we have a team of 10/11 people doesn't mean you can just make music.

It's no coincidence that Quantic, while making good music, worked very hard behind the scenes, as did Bonobo, as did all our artists who went on to a higher level, they all worked outside music, very hard to get where they are. That's what's closest to my heart: you have to get away from what you do in music, but find the right balance and not lose yourself too much. As we said earlier, I think social media is important, but you don't have to be on it 24/7. I worry if I see one of our artists on social media too much, because I’m always thinking, you could be making some music this week. Don't get lost in the numbers. It's all about finding the right balance.

Anyone that you’ve got your eyes on for the label?

There are a couple of things going on behind the scenes. We’ve signed. Almost similar to what happened with Flow Dan when we signed him, he was an original foundation grime artist. He was trying to figure out “where do I go from here”, he didn’t necessarily want to be purely in the grime scene. And so with his manager Nikki, they knew that coming to us as a label would be a really interesting thing to be on Tru Thoughts rather than maybe a label that has done more grime. So we signed. We’ve also just signed someone who was a foundational in drum and bass and jungle artist and still has been making music regularly for a long time. He’s got an album coming soon but I can't say who it is!

Do you play any instruments or produce any music yourself?

No. My mum regularly feels guilty because when I was young I wanted to learn how to play the drums and my mum would say I can’t afford to send you to lessons. Also, we lived in a house with no central heating or double glazing, even if she could afford lessons there was nowhere for me to do this. I always say to her that, in hindsight, I think I was more into listening. I don’t think I’m disciplined in a musical sense, but I absolutely love music. I think for me, from an A&R point of view, I don’t understand notes or composition or what is going on with things, when I listen to music, I’m just listening to ‘What's the vibe of this?’. Sometimes an artist might do a track with a singer and they’ll say “that’s a little bit off-key”, or it’s not quite right, and I’ll be like I know, but it’s good. Because I like that UK street soul scene where it’s somebody recording in their kitchen, or some equipment that’s been borrowed and it’s a little bit off, it’s not the best take but there’s something pure about it, and that I really love.

I have done some production stuff, I did an album with TMG who produces with Alice Russel, and I collaborated with Bonobo under the name Nairobi, which was my name. He called himself The Ruckus and we did some club tunes with a South Asian influence. That was really fascinating for me because doing that both with TMG and Bonobo, being in a studio, ultimately I just came up with ideas. But their talent and watching them work was just amazing. That was a realisation for me where I had that itching thought of should I try and focus on doing production? Then I realised, these guys are serious about what they do. Leave it to the professionals. I got it out of my system a little bit, and did some things on the label, but realised some people are a hundred times better than me at doing this and my skill is to get them on the label. That’s what I should be doing. I have fun doing it, I do some stuff like edits and a few little bits just for myself to DJ but nothing to release. It’s a hobby and fun in the background.

Any disasters that you’d like to share?

The only proper disaster was when Woolworths went bankrupt, our distributor was owed a lot of money by Woolworths and then they went under and they owed us about £100,000. That was a big learning curve for me because Paul [Jonas] is very sensible on the financial side. So we had money in the bank account and I was always saying to him, let’s spend it, look if we give this money to Quantic he can do strings, or if we pay bigger advances we can sign this artist, and he was always saying we need this funding kept there. It just means if anything goes wrong, we can pay all the staff and we know we’ll make the money back.

Exactly when that happened, we carried on with the releases, we paid the staff, and I remember speaking to other people who had run labels and they were saying well this is the end now, I’m going to have to give up and get a job. That was definitely a learning curve on the business side of things.

What’s the dream?

Well, it’s the 25th anniversary, and although we’ve looked back on 10th, 15th, 20th anniversaries, it’s the first time that I’m thinking — it is an achievement to be 100% independent and to be solvent, never been in debt as a label and still be functioning. So I feel that’s been really good, and I feel that looking forward is what I did when I first started the label. I’m still hungry to carry on signing artists that go on to do well, and become known in the world. We’ve had some good success rates, and we’re involved in specialist music and we’ve had artists like Bonobo who have taken specialist music to the masses, to bigger audiences —and to play parts in those journeys, I love.

For me, that’s what I would like to continue to do that and have fun with — to find that brilliant artist who is just an artist and put out that record just because it’s important to have this music out there that someone in 25 years might discover. I like that idea, especially with jazz; when I was discovering music and you had no idea who they were. As you get deeper into jazz and you move away from just Blue Note, and find private press releases and things like that, you’re making up stories in your head about these people, which I think is brilliant.

Now, with social media, you can find information about everything, but sometimes listening to a record and knowing nothing about somebody is really fascinating as well. But we want to balance those worlds. Being a platform for a creative artist is still my main aim, can we sign something and let them do something that they really believe in with no compromise. That’s still the key, for me.